Politik

How was that with the Greeks, Mister Juncker?

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Report: The head of the European Commission shares humorous and shocking secrets from his decades at the top level of European politics

He was already a minister of finance before the Wall came down. He was the prime minister of Luxembourg for almost 20 years; he was involved in introducing the euro; and he is now facing the end of his five years in office as the President of the European Commission.

Hardly anyone knows the EU from the inside as well as he does – and he represents both the good and the bad side of what happens in Brussels.

On the eve of the European elections, Juncker explains his views on Europe and gives an insight into what is happening behind the scenes. An interview with historic – and not so historic – photos.

Greek bankruptcy

BILD: In 2010, you were head of the Eurogroup. Were you mad at the Greek Prime Minister, Papandreou, when he declared Greece’s factual bankruptcy in April?

Jean-Claude Juncker: “When Giorgos Papandreou came into office, he either didn’t know how deeply in trouble Greece was – or he pretended not to know. It was difficult for him to bring himself to make this declaration.“

Really? At least the scenery was beautiful.

Juncker: “The dignity of the Greek people was trampled on by certain parts of German politics and the German media back then. As if the Greeks were all lazy and corrupt. This weighted heavily in dealings with the various Greek leaders.“

Would it have been better if Greece had left the euro?

Juncker: “No. Once a country leaves the euro, the entire euro is at risk of collapsing. And so far, the support for Greece has actually not cost anyone a single euro.“

But it must be possible for a country that is not fit for the euro to leave the euro.

Juncker: “The euro is our common currency, and that is irrevocable. A currency union must be more stable than a marriage, otherwise nobody will believe in it. That’s why, prior to a euro accession, we must look much more closely than we did in the past. It’s true that Greece became a euro member in 2001 after having forged the statistic material. To this day, I blame myself for that. As a finance minister, I didn’t want independent EU statisticians to be allowed to review national data. That’s why we’ve changed this: today, the independent EU Statistical Office, Eurostat, can thoroughly check the books of all EU member states. So Europe is capable of learning from its mistakes.“

At the end of the 1990s, the German Minister of Finance, Waigel, pushed for the European Stability Pact in order to resolve the Germans’ doubts about the euro. Did you understand that?

Juncker: “Yes. His legendary statement on a strict deficit limit was: ‘Three percent is three percent’. That was both economically and politically correct. Unfortunately, Germany has violated the Stability Pact 19 times since then.“

Was the Pact naïve?

Juncker: “To this day, what’s missing in its construction is an ‘economy government’. This was prevented by the Germans, among others, since they were worried about French conditions across Europe. However, a common currency requires a common economic policy.“

Will the euro still exist in ten years’ time?

Juncker: “Of course.“

Kohl, Chirac, and Blair

Kohl, Chirac, Blair – were the heads of the EU better back then, and grander personalities?

Juncker: “Not at all. The difference is that we were only 15 back then and had a personal relationship between ourselves, including the private side, like in a club. Everybody knew about each other.“

Did the “big guys” notice you, the Luxembourgian, at all?

Juncker: “Notice me? I often mediated between Kohl and Chirac, at their request. The first time was when they argued about the Euro Stability Pact at the summit in Dublin, in December 1996. My compromise was so good that they were both mad at me afterwards.“

Helmut Kohl

Is it true that you saw Helmut Kohl cry?

Juncker: “Yes, he cried. That was in December 1997, it was about the accession of the Eastern Europeans to the EU – how to organize that in practical terms. While we were eating, Helmut Kohl said that this was the most beautiful moment of his European life: to be present as the German Chancellor while Europe was growing together again. Then, at the table, he burst into tears.“

Kohl was a great European. But what does that statement mean?

Juncker: “He was a great, but not a naïve, European. He sometimes uncompromisingly pursued German interests; yes, he could do that. But Kohl also said at EU summits: ‘I’ll agree with this decision and will be scolded at home. But for Europe, it’s alright to be scolded sometimes.’“

Eastward enlargement of the EU

The Dublin summit in 2004, the sudden enlargement of the EU by ten states. Was that a mistake?

Juncker: “It was the opportunity to bring the countries of Central and Eastern Europe home. Who knows what conflicts might have developed between these states – who were suddenly sovereign after decades of Soviet domination – if the EU had not accepted them?“

Has the EU become too big, too fast?

Juncker: “When history is made, it’s never without mistakes. But if you don’t allow for history to be made, you’re making a big mistake. Don’t forget that there were clear demands by Germany: no enlargement without Poland. Should we have divided Eastern Europe again in the course of the enlargement? That would have been a much bigger mistake, inexcusable. It was a continental stroke of luck that East and West were united without weapons.“

“Dictator“ Orbán

Juncker: “Ah, Viktor Orbán. In the mid-90s, I was one of his biggest admirers. He was so brave.”

Now he’s challenging the EU that you personify.

Juncker: “He’s not only challenging the EU – he’s negating it. That’s a difference.“

Orbán says: more national states, less Brussels. Is that the future?

Juncker: “No.“

Why not?

Juncker: “If everyone acted as egoistically and nationally as Viktor Orbán, there would no longer be an EU. But the majority want the EU. This is why Orbán will not prevail.“

Will Hungary leave the EU?

Juncker: “No, the majority of Hungarians want to stay in the EU. But Orbán will remain Orbán: everyone who is not to his right is an orthodox left-wing socialist for him. Including me. Ridiculous.“

Angela Merkel

Is that a greeting or are you whispering something in Angela Merkel’s ear?

Juncker: “I just purse my lips when I give a kiss. It’s a greeting.“

Why do you like Angela Merkel?

Juncker: “She is an intelligent woman, and you can have a great laugh with her. However, we have also had many disagreements.“

Overall, did the Chancellor lead or divide the EU?

Juncker: “You can effect a lot of things from Berlin, that’s true. But a single person can neither lead nor divide the EU. In Europe, you always need solidly reliable allies and many friends if you want to achieve something.“

So did she lead Europe?

Juncker: “In the EU, Germany is not a speedboat but a slow tanker. But Angela Merkel brought things and people together at the crucial moment. Not alone, but co-leading, together with many other bright minds.“

Refugees

The picture is from February 2011, near a camp on Lampedusa in Italy. In the refugee crisis, was the EU too late…

Juncker: “…the EU Commission did not look away. I will not take the blame for that. In Germany, one didn’t want to see anything until 2015.“

Really?

Juncker: “In 2014, I put the refugee issue at the center of my campaign for the European elections. My EU Commission made 25 proposals overall on the issues of migration, asylum, the distribution of refugees, and border security. 14 of them had already been accepted by the European Parliament and the member states. However, member states blocked the seven important proposals for reform to the right of asylum. For us, the autumn of 2015 didn’t come as a surprise.“

Still, the EU did nothing jointly to protect the external borders.

Juncker: “Yes, but why? Because the member states have been preventing this since 2002, crying and yelling. It was claimed that border protection was ‘a national responsibility alone’. In 2015, my commission suggested a European border protection that was accepted in record time. Since October 2016, 1500 European units have now been supporting the 100 000 national border guards. The European Parliament and the member states recently agreed to even deploy ten thousand additional European border guards by 2027. Even though I would have wished for more ambition and speed in extending border protection, nobody can now claim that Europe’s borders are not sufficiently protected.“

Can a massive wave of refugees like that of 2015 happen again?

Juncker: “No. And it wouldn’t be good for the EU. Still, Angela Merkel did the right thing in the autumn of 2015, and history will prove her right. If she had closed the German border, Austria and Hungary would have collapsed under the weight of the refugees. That’s the truth.“

Donald Trump

What do you make of Donald Trump?

Juncker: “If you negotiate hard, you’ll be respected. If you argue with him, you’ll be respected.“

Does that also apply to the EU Commission?

Juncker: “Yes, especially the EU Commission, because it’s calling the shots when it comes to trade issues. Prior to the meeting, I was wondering what Donald Trump might care about in terms of domestic policy. Then I offered him, primarily, imports of US liquid gas and soy to Europe, which was very important to his farmer voters at the time. In the end, he kissed me in the Oval Office.“

But you couldn’t offer imports…

Juncker: “Well, Donald didn’t mind.“

Brexit

Have you ever dreamt of Mrs. May, the British Prime Minister?

Juncker: “No.“

Or of Brexit?

Juncker: “No.“

Don’t you care about Brexit?

Juncker: “Of course I care, what do you think? Brexit poses great harm to all of us. For months now, I have been dealing with the negotiations for hours every day, in order to achieve an ordered Brexit. But not at night. If you don’t sleep well, you should stay away from politics.“

Kissing

Do you ask people before you kiss them?

Juncker: “No.“

And if somebody doesn’t want to be kissed?

Juncker: “Nobody has ever told me that.“

Were you born with the kissing thing?

Juncker: “I come from the south of Luxembourg, the steel region. I grew up there with many Italians. They often hugged and kissed. I suppose I took that on. I am as I am, and Martin Schulz is my friend.“

Would it have been better if Martin Schulz had relinquished the SPD chair and his tragic run for the chancellorship in 2017?

Juncker: “I can’t say that. But here in Brussels, many things would be easier if he were still President of the European Parliament. I miss him very much. I’m horrified by the thought of a possible splitting-up of the new parliament.“

Women

What are you doing there, Mister Juncker?

Juncker: “Well, my deputy chief of protocol is standing there at the entrance of the European Council, and it’s terribly drafty. So her hair got messed up and fell into her face. I swept the hair from her face, that was all.“

And what did your colleague later say?

Juncker: “I asked her later, and she hadn’t minded at all. And the fact that others then thought that they had to attack me on social media doesn’t bother me at all, to be honest.“

Vermisster Sportstudent aus Berlin ist tot – Mutter bedankt sich emotional für Anteilnahme

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